Esther: "thus even though they've never heard of Jesus but God says just in His creation of the world, they should acknowledge the presence of a Creator."
So, guess God just wants us to acknowledge His presence? And we can either do it thru Christ or by acknowledging a Creator directly since they're both the same? And thus we'd be justified?
Guess what. All Muslims acknowledge God's presence. Jews also acknowledge God's presence. Some people believe in some 'life-force' or 'nature' that drives the world....
Do you know what is the only way we can be in communion with God in heaven and have eternal life? Only by being justified. That we agree, right? For God is perfect and cannot tolerate sin.
And let's see, which person on earth has kept God's law perfectly and is thus justified? This law that is written in all the Gentiles' hearts even, as you so say with Romans 1:20
Well, who has kept the law perfectly? NOONE.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" - Romans 3:23
So... ALL of mankind is going to Hell already!! NONE were justified by the law, be it the Mosaic Law or the the law in the hearts of the Gentiles who don't know the Mosaic law. Does that answer you?
Esther: "but pls dun ask me abt tribal ppl who worship a Creator in their own community. erm...i dunno how God will judge them..."
It's like you're setting up an alternative path to salvation for ppl who don't know jesus...as if they could be justified by any other way when it is so clear throughout the whole scripture that...
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - John 14:6
It's becoming clearer and clearer that your gospel is different from scripture. Is that something you yourself misunderstood (as you so claimed in your email while defending your church) or were you taught like that? Please check with your cell leaders, bible teachers etc etc.
It's not that I am biased against certain denominations. But a church whose believers aren't clear in God's Word on even basics like salvation, grace (ay, our very faith itself, that ultimate testament to God's glory and mercy) needs a lot of reform.
So, dear Esther, and every other Christian reading this, will the Emperor of China, who had no knowledge of the gospel, have salvation?
If you still don't know after reading all this, then, sigh. Go ask your pastor and another one from a different church. All teachers of the true gospel will tell you, on pain of Bible scripture being a lie, that every man, even those who had not heard of the gospel, had always been dead in his sin.
Amen
2 comments:
Hey Jerry, i've good news. as i finished reading ur post, a sense of relief swept over me. cos i totally agree with what u said,
@ least on the spiritual values part. yes i agree dat we are all dead in our sins. when did i never agree on dat? lol...
nope God do not just want us to acknowledge His presence. dat's not His plan for us to be saved anyway. i never said it was? only when we admit dat we're sinners, believed dat Jesus is our Savior & confess dat only through Him we're saved then are we covered under God's covenant. like wat u mentioned b4 we're saved by grace. nothing more, nothing less. yet @ the same time there're ppl who've never even heard of the name Jesus. least know wat He has done for them.
which explains y the bible said dat blessed are the feet who bring the good news. Paul also mentioned that if nobody ever preaches the good news to them, then how would they know? God promises that everyone will have a chance to hear the Gospel b4 the world ends. which is why we must sent missions.
yes yes God is perfect & He can't tolerate sin, but you also 4got dat God is slow to anger & quick to mercy. so dun worry...i'm not erm...believing in something dat's different from u.
btw chinese emperors are indulged in idolatry. lol...so they can't be saved & dead ppl can't repent.
sigh...i dunno y u thought dat i believe dat there're other ways in which ppl can be saved. if i thought so then y do i even evangelized? maybe it's my way of expression. not good enough, not complete enough. anyway can't tok liao...got lessons!
lol...cheers!
p.s. it's not just my church, u have some misregards with catholics as well...erm...right? did i got dat wrong?
elo...it's me again...lol...
anyway i read this in my study bible:
Rom 1:18-20 Paul answers a common objective: How could a loving God send anyone to hell, especially someone who has never heard the Good News of Jesus? In fact, says Paul, God has revealed Himself to all people. Everyone knows what God requires, but no one lives up to it. If people suppress God's truth in order to live their own way, they have no excuse. They know the truth, and they will have to endure the consequences of ignoring it.
that was what i meant when i said ppl should acknowledge the presence of a Creator. God has put this inner knowledge within us. God has also put conscience into our hearts, thus even Gentiles know how to obey God's laws. even though they dun have God's written law. this shows dat God has indeed placed His presence together with His laws in our hearths. read Romans 1-2 in NLT. it describes the situation very well...
hm...y do i say, "pls dun ask me abt tribal ppl who worship a Creator in their own community. erm...i dunno how God will judge them..." is really becos i dunno? i dun dare to say how will God judge them. for i dunno how do they worship? even if i do, i also dunno if this is what God meant with the verses mentioned above. i must admit i do not understand the ambiguity of this in the bible. it is not stated very³ clearly how does God view ppl who worship a Creator. we know dat salvation is only through Jesus & Jesus said dat all who reject Him reject the one who sent Him. so we cannot know Jesus, reject Him but accept God & claim dat we know God. but i really dunno how to view ppl who dunno Jesus but have accepted dat there’s a God plus never ignore the law dat God place in their hearts. (then again are there such ppl? maybe none @ all ,& if there’s none, then of course all men have indeed fallen short.) erm...do u get me? hm...I hope u do...lol...so anyway dat’s y we need to evangelise! let them noe of the new covenant & not simply lost in their sins. cos even though they may accept God but like u say, no 1 is perfect, thus they’re nonetheless still sinning.
i’m sorry dat i used the example of chinese emperors, they’re not a gd example indeed. it was an unwise move. i thought if i use dat example, u’ll get a clearer picture of wat i meant. instead it lead u to think dat I specifically thought dat Chinese emperors will have 2nd chance. anyway i hope this clears ur doubts.
sigh…but i fear u’ll pick on my words again & say dat i’m taught by false teachers. hey i’m not good with expressing myself. ur usage & my usage of words are different. there's bond to be misunderstandings. i dun think i've changed much of my statements. it's more like we dun truly understand each other's meaning.
btw we didn’t start off our debate on this area right? it was on the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit. y r u picking me on something dat i wasn’t sure abt & claim dat i got taught on dat? strange...puzzle...
cheers!
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